E Pluribus Unum

Tom Friedman writes for the NYT.

Billmon only blogs:
http://billmon.org/archives/002523.html

What an f-ed up world.

And Wolcott (and Ray Close) bring it home:

http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2006/07/punitive_respon.php

Oh boy.

You're gonna love what I posted over at DailyKos.

But here's the irony -- in a way, I agree with Ray Close: the interests of the US and the interests of Israel are NOT the same.

Israel's fight is one for independence and freedom; it is also a fight for survival. Their fight against Hezbollah and Hamas is not the same as our occupation of Iraq. Theirs is a war of necessity -- one of survival. As for the US, I have no idea what our "adventure" in Iraq is about anymore, but I do know this: Israel's fight is far different than our occupation of Iraq.

I understand your feelings, Ara but please don't confuse them with truth - that's the mistake the right makes. Think about it: you have a dog in this hunt, I don’t.

I simply don't see an outside existential threat to Israel - she has the overwhelming power advantage - or how having a single Israeli boot on West Bank or Gaza land helps Israel. Quite the reverse, it provides the only justification for her enemies and the only existential threat to Israel - the loss of her moral standing and, therefore, any reason to be.

Killing and punishing innocent civilian noncombatants never has and never can be a legitimate form of "self-defense". Considering that Israel is made from land forcibly taken from the Palestinian people, the onus has always been on her and her supporters to do everything possible to provide them a realistic possibility of a viable state. We've failed miserably, woe upon us. That's how I feel.

Shep:

The quest for truth is something that cannot be afforded at this time. Maybe later. Right now, there is something that is more urgent than truth and that is strength.

That is the coin of the realm.

Right now, there is something that is more urgent than truth and that is strength.

That is the coin of the realm.

That way lies disaster, Ara.

"Right now, there is something that is more urgent than truth and that is strength."

"Every truth is self-acting and possesses inherent strength."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Gandhi led a nation that outnumbered its colonial masters by 100:1.

Israel is a nuclear power backed by the full might of the world's lone superpower.

Get a grip, Ara. There is no existential threat to Israel, except Israel.

Shep:

There is no existential threat to Israel, except Israel.

You've used that phrase on a number of occasions. I don't think it means what you think it means.

There is no existential threat to Israel, except Israel.

You've got to be kidding. Isn't there a demographic threat, for one thing?

Yours,
Wince

"You've used that phrase on a number of occasions. I don't think it means what you think it means."

To (no dog in this hunt) me, it’s quite simple, really.

Israel has all of the power to decide how to respond to its “threats”, at least for the last forty years. Israel chose to confiscate West Bank and Gaza land and occupy it unilaterally, with all of the policies that has entailed. Israel decides who’s a worthwhile negotiating partner (and who’s a “terrorist”) and what and when they will or won’t negotiate. Israel sets a course for itself when it engages in extrajudicial assassinations, kidnappings, imprisonment, harassment and killing of innocent Palestinians and Lebanese who have role or interest in the blood war. If Israel took a different course, it could immeasurable help itself in moral authority and support from most nations of the world – the only way it will ever defeat the ideology of its enemies.

Blaming everyone else except the dominant military, economic and political power in the region for its woes is simply not rational.

Wince:

Isn't there a demographic threat, for one thing?

It escapes me at the moment but I read a piece recently that produced research showing that the demographic time-bomb is essentially a myth. I'll try to remember where I saw it and reproduce it here.

Damn that CRS (can't remember sh*t) Syndrome!

shep:

Israel chose to confiscate West Bank and Gaza land

See, that's where you lose me. The West Bank territory was taken during the Six Day War. No peace treaty has been signed. No doubt it's long overdue. Who are we to blame for that?

Israel decides who’s a worthwhile negotiating partner (and who’s a “terrorist”)

Why the scare quotes? Didn't Arafat fit the description? He was the one who welched on every single facet of the Oslo Accords.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

If Israel took a different course

Olmert, who is not a general, may be the one who finally understands that a military solution isn't possible. But that doesn't mean military tactics aren't part of the solution.

Blaming everyone else except the dominant military, economic and political power in the region for its woes is simply not rational.

Shep, shep, shep: who (in the region) is more rational than Israel?

Who are you holding out for?

I'd be curious to hear your answer to this vital question.

"I'd be curious to hear your answer to this vital question."

You're obviously not listening to a word I'm saying.

Not true! I am very interested in hearing who you think the rational players are in the region.

OK, if Israel is in such mortal danger, what security has been purchased by her actions? Can they then be said to be rational?

It was just announced that eight Canadians were killed and a further six critically injured in Lebanon by an Israeli attack.

I'm rapidly losing any sympathy I have for Israel's position.

R.I.P.

I can't understand why we're planning possible evacuation of 24,000 Americans to escape an attack from our ally.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the deceased.

I can't understand why we're planning possible evacuation of 24,000 Americans to escape an attack from our ally.

One of the most troubling things about this war is how completely marginalized the US has become.